This episode of Beyond the Deal features a conversation with Thoma Bravo Partner Carl Press, Applitools Co-Founder and CTO Adam Carmi, and Applitools CEO Alex Berry.
AIR DATE:
May 29, 2025
LENGTH:
20:01
DISCLAIMER:
This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute an advertisement. Views expressed are those of the individuals and not necessarily the views of Thoma Bravo or its affiliates. Thoma Bravo funds generally hold interest in the companies discussed. This podcast should not be construed as an offer to solicit the purchase of any interest of any Thoma Bravo fund.
Transcript
CARL PRESS:
Alex, Adam, good to see you. Thanks for doing this. Alex, I'm assuming we've got you in the Florida branch of Applitools.
ALEX BERRY:
You do.
CARL PRESS:
And Adam is coming at us all the way from Tel Aviv, which it must be approaching eleven o'clock at night over there.
ADAM CARMI:
Yes, yes.
CARL PRESS:
Incredible. You're a warrior. You're always on at the most odd hours, whether it's a board meeting or an ad hoc phone call, it's incredible. Thank you. Well, thank you guys for doing this. This will be fun.
THEME MUSIC OUT
ALEX BERRY:
Great. Thank you.
CARL PRESS:
Alex, can you give listeners the quick elevator pitch on Applitools?
ALEX BERRY:
Sure. So, the Applitools intelligent testing platform, we talk about revolutionizing test automation with artificial intelligence. And so our platform uses AI to proactively detect bugs, changes found in websites, web applications, documents, etc. And it dramatically reduces the time it takes to create, execute, and maintain tests, while maximizing your coverage of functional, visual, and accessibility correctness on screens and devices of any kind.
And so that's the quick and dirty, and if you look at the benefits. So, first of all, why does it matter? It reduces the risk of every software update, so that's really important. It improves software delivery velocity. So, things that take weeks or months can be shortened to days and hours, and it enables operational efficiency across the entire SDLC, and where we win are companies that do a lot of software releases, regulated industry, B2B, technology companies, financial services, etc, and that's the pitch.
CARL PRESS:
I love it. Adam, from our visit to Israel back in 2022, our first visit to see the company, and we got to meet everybody at the business in person, in the office. It was so clear that you are the cultural beating heart of that company. You and Moshe, the two co-founders, the cultural beating hearts of the business, and people really rally around the two of you, and you in particular, being based in Israel.
As sort of the spiritual leader of the organization, talk about, you know, from the journey from when it was just the two of you plus Gil to where it is today, how you've built that culture, how you think about continuing to build it, especially in the face of all that's happening in Israel and all that's been happening over the last year and a half.
ADAM CARMI:
It was critically important for me to have a tool, a way that describes concisely who we are and how we do things.
CARL PRESS:
Yeah.
ADAM CARMI:
And use it as a measuring tool for everyone else that we recruit, and also as a measuring tool for coming up with the right solution when we have multiple solutions, right? So we spend the time very early on. I think it was maybe when we were like three years old or so, to articulate it very well with the whole team. We went through a very rigorous process and got to the point where we know exactly who we are and how we want to do things, and we stuck to it. So even today, every town hall meeting, we start by talking about the vision and the mission and the cultural values, and what they mean. And we give examples, and every employee that comes in learns about it and talks about it, and we just make sure that these are the rules that we live by, and we take it very seriously.
And the result, the data speaks for itself. Well, at least what I can attest in the engineering side of the business, where normally in Israel, there's natural attrition every two years. By average, we have engineers with us for five, six, seven years, even eleven years working at the company. The team feels that it is his company. They care about the company, not just engineering; it's everywhere. I can only attest on the number of years that my team that is reporting to me that I'm familiar with the numbers. But it is this special culture and this group of people working together, working for each other's success, that makes it special, and these are the tools that we are basically using for that.
CARL PRESS:
My favorite moment or anecdote from that first trip to Israel was we got there, we were all pretty jet lagged. You and I had started talking about — you had put in a small gym in the side of the office, and you remember you said “Carl, you were a gymnast at one point, right?” And I said, “Yeah,” and you said, “I love to do gymnastics workouts and we should do a pull-up contest at some point,” And I sort of said, “Okay, yeah, let's do it.” And you said, “No, let's do it now.” And you took me to the side gym, and I can't remember how many I did. It wasn't my best showing. I maybe did 10 or 12, or something. And then you proceed to —
ADAM CARMI:
No, you got to fifteen, I remember.
CARL PRESS:
What was it?
ADAM CARMI:
Fifteen [laughs]
CARL PRESS:
Oh, okay. And then you did 28, I think, in a row.
ADAM CARMI:
Yeah.
CARL PRESS:
And it was incredible. And I knew that was the moment where I was like
“Okay, Adam just went to the next level in my mind.” I knew he was a legit, incredible entrepreneur and a developer, and a technologist, but he's also incredibly jacked [laughs]
That was–that was an awesome moment. That was an awesome moment.
ADAM CARMI:
Thanks, thanks.
ALEX BERRY:
And don't ask me to do that. I don't think I can do one. But I —
CARL PRESS:
I'm surprised he hasn't yet, Alex.
ALEX BERRY:
Yeah. I got bad shoulders.
CARL PRESS:
Well, Alex, maybe to you. I'll always remember our meeting in the Presidio, the first time you and I met in person and really went deep on, you know, what you were trying to do, what we were trying to do, the transition we were going through as a business. What were your impressions from that day of Thoma Bravo, of me, of the opportunity that ultimately led you to take the opportunity, to take the offer?
ALEX BERRY:
Yeah, no, I remember that day well. First of all, it was a warm day and I had just gotten new shoes, wanted to look my best, and I wore a jacket. And what Carl didn't say is, I think, part of the evaluation was this walk, and we walked around the Presidio, and it wasn't a flat walk, it was uphill, and I brought this backpack. I still regret that decision to this day. And we're walking up the hill, and all I'm trying to do is not sweat and make sure, as we're talking, that, you know to Adam's point, because he set such a high bar with the pull-ups, that I could communicate while I was walking so notwithstanding the physical aspect of it, it was really important to hear your vision, the strategy of the business, and how you approached the opportunity. And I think that we talked earlier today about the difference between the various PE firms that I had worked with, but what really struck me is your connection to the team, the company.
And it wasn't someone else's responsibility, or you weren't working on, you know, 10 or 11 different deals in the portfolio. You knew the business so well, and you knew the people so well, and you had a clear understanding of the vision. And then from that point forward, everyone I talked to kind of lined up right behind it. So there was an authenticity that permeated the entire process, and that was really the key thing for me. And you and I had spoken, and I think one of the key things that I look for in hiring people is that cultural fit.
And I'm sure you had talked to a number of people who had the requisite skill sets; everyone has different skills and capabilities that they have. And you're looking for, you know, certain criteria within the—within the candidate, but what's most important is that cultural fit and authenticity. And do you believe in each other? And do you believe that you can work with this person? Because there's going to be hard days, there's going to be challenges, there's going to be setbacks, and how you can come together as an organization, as a team, as a board, was really important.
So, that was the determining factor for me. And it was the people, and that still is true to this day. I feel that we're supported when things are tough. You give great advice, and the team gives great advice, and you also listen. And I think that was what I thought it would be when we were on that death march.
CARL PRESS:
[laughs]
ALEX BERRY:
But what actually it turned out to be is we've been working together for the last year and a half.
CARL PRESS:
Yeah, I'll always remember that meeting. It was — You impressed me beyond belief. And I'd like to think that I had some grand plan to test you at this walk. In reality, I was just oblivious to the fact that you'd show up in a coat and loafers, as one does at a business meeting, and then I would make you go on this long walk on a hot, sunny day in San Francisco.
ALEX BERRY:
But it was a beautiful setting. So that was, we did have that, and it was a great discussion.
CARL PRESS:
Yeah. Yeah. I also remember in that meeting, we went way long, mostly because I was asking you about something really interesting in your life, which is the fact that both of your sons, your two children, are professional athletes, which I think is incredible. And frankly, says a lot about you as a person, as a parent, as a leader. Maybe tell the listeners a little bit about your two boys, what they're doing. And then also how your leadership style and your ambition has informed their journey as athletes.
ALEX BERRY:
Yeah, I think their perspective would be a little bit different than mine.
CARL PRESS:
[laughs] We've got them on the next episode, Alex, don't worry.
ALEX BERRY:
Yeah, yeah, that's — so you know, I think it is unique and rare. I mean, so just by way of background, kind of my family, every family has their superpower and you know, I'm 6’6, my wife, 6 feet, my one son, 6’10, my other one’s, 6’4, my dad is 6’9, all of and my grandfather was 6’4, all of them and all of us were athletes growing up. And my sons are the best of all of us.
And for me, it's funny, I tell a story, I have a financial advisor, and he came when I was at converges at Cincinnati, and he came to sit down and plan your future and your kids going to college and everything else and literally my kids were five and three and he said, “We got to set up a Roth, whatever.” And I'm like, “We're not setting that up.” He's like, “Why not?” I go, “Both my kids are going to get full scholarships.” And he tells the story 20 years later that he thought I was a complete arrogant, that, you know, ‘what are you thinking? You can repurpose this’. But he said, “What's happened it’s kind of that manifest destiny.”
So, I believe in positivity. I believe in a plan. I believe in, you know, in setting your goals and sticking to those from a personal perspective and knowing what you're going to do every single day, being prepared, understanding the details and the basics, leaving nothing to chance. I mean, is really how I run my business career, but also with my kids. And you know, early on, they both had a, you know, an inkling to be good athletes, but, you know, as every parent knows, you can want it for them. But at about 12 years old, after you've given them the foundation, you've given them everything else, they need to make the decision on: Are they going to do it themselves? And I will enable that. I'll prepare them. That's also how I manage, I want to see potential, I want people that care, I want people that have grit, I want people that, you know, are competitive. But at a certain point, my job is to enable that. And they aren't going to have to do the hard work, and so that's really what my kids did.
And so my one son, the 6'10 lefty, plays within the Guardians organization. He's recovering from, no surprise, Tommy John surgery. You know, he's also a special kid because he's a cancer survivor. And so, as much as I learned from Adam and the team in Israel about grit and determination, I've learned more from my son. He's now seven years out, never complaining. Everyone has challenges. Chemotherapy is no joke. It's no joke for a 16-year-old to go through, and having him go through that and then still achieve his goals is like the best inspiration I have every single day on not complaining, doing your job, just get after it is my one son. And so very proud of what he does.
And, you know, the untold story is being a professional athlete, being a Division I athlete, it's a lot of work when no one's watching. And that's the same in business, right? Do you prepare? Do you do your homework? Do you do research on your companies? Do you understand the details of your business? And my kids have done that. And my other son plays on the Korn Ferry tour. And golf is also really hard. It's solitary, it's lonely. He's just left; he's with us in Florida right now and he just left and he'll be gone the 17 of 20 weeks on tour.
And it's him and his caddie. And he made the first three cuts of the of the year, was top 20 in the money list, and the top 20 get to go to the PGA Tour, and he's missed his last five cuts, like three of them right on the number. And you got to just have that passion, conviction, and you got to throw that aside, and the parallels between athletics and business for me are just always right there, and I think that that's something that I’ve instilled in my kids, I’ve tried to instill in my team. The team that I'm leading here, or others, is that there's a lot of lessons learned, and you know I watch my kids every single day.
Their schedule is, you know, like a CEO schedule or a you know, managing director schedule. They get up at six o'clock, and they go till dark, and then they get good sleep and take care of their bodies and everything else. And all of that is over an extended period of time. There is no such thing as an overnight sensation for any of these kids that have become professional athletes. And I've seen it. It started when they were three or five years old. They had this vision, and they had to put the work in every single day. And that's how I try to model my life and how I try to model the teams I lead, it's like —
CARL PRESS:
So incredible. And for any parent of young children, like you hear that story about someone who has two professional athlete children, and you're like, “What did this guy do and what can I learn from him?” And so I went home and told my children, “You need to be six foot four and six foot ten.”
ALEX BERRY:
[laughs] Yeah.
CARL PRESS:
And their father is not six feet. And so good luck to them on that. [laughs]
ALEX BERRY:
And I tell them, you know, competition, what they're doing is a privilege. And I believe that within what we're doing as well. And I think if you approach it with that mindset, you can accomplish a lot of great things and set high goals, and never relent on what you think you can do, and always believe in yourself. And then you believe in them and, you know, they gotta have some talent, but the rest will take care of itself.
CARL PRESS:
Yeah, so many, so many parallels to what we do in business. So many parallels. Adam, on your end, you have an equally interesting journey to where you are today. You were, like so many Israelis, a member of the armed forces there, the IDF. But your journey in particular was super unique. You know, you didn't set out to be an engineer. You became one of the best I've ever met, but that wasn't your original goal. Maybe talk about your journey through the IDF and then getting into technology.
ADAM CARMI:
Yeah, so I got a computer when I was very young, when I was nine years old. And for some reason, I was fascinated with the basic prompt that was there and started to teach myself programming. That was just as a hobby in addition to playing games on the computer, I did some programming.
I joined the Israeli military. I won't go into details, but it had nothing to do with technology, and I really liked the time that I served. I thought about staying in the equivalent of the FBI in the U.S., right? In Israel here. And my mother actually told me, “Hey, you can always do that job. Take that job. Maybe you should go to the, to the university and get a degree first. Try it out.” And really, the only, it made sense to me, this suggestion, and I just went to school. And the moment I went to my first computer science course, I knew that I got home. Immediately, it clicked, and I got in touch with my programming roots as a small child, and six months later, I was working at Intel and starting my career.
Now, even Applitools, I always just enjoyed working on the tech, solving these impossible problems. It gives me immense amounts of satisfaction. And that's all I cared about. I didn't even care if–I was sure that it was going to fail miserably, just like most startups, but I didn't care, just the thought that I'll have a year or so to just enjoy myself was all that I needed. And eventually it didn't fail, luckily, but I get a lot of satisfaction out of it. And this is what I try to do. I try to be happy and do the things that I want, and good things happen as a side effect, but that's a side effect for me.
CARL PRESS:
Guys, thank you both for sharing these personal stories. Most of these episodes that we've recorded have been one-on-one. I felt like for this business, for this investment, it was important to get both of your perspectives. On one hand, you have the founder, the technical visionary of the business, someone who was there since time equals zero. And then you have the CEO who, in the last 18 months, has really put his fingerprints all over the business, has changed so much.
But at the same time has embraced the culture that existed before he joined. And so for me, it's exciting to get both of your perspectives in this discussion and then also to get to unpack some of who you both are as people and how that informs the business that we all work on so diligently and that we care so much about. So, thank you guys for sharing that. It's a joy and a pleasure to work with both of you. Excited for the journey ahead.
[MUSIC IN]
ALEX BERRY:
Thank you.
ADAM CARMI:
Thank you, Carl.
ORLANDO BRAVO:
Behind the Deal is brought to you by Thoma Bravo in partnership with Audacy’s Pineapple Street Studios. Join us next week for more stories Behind The Deal. Thanks for listening.
[MUSIC OUT]
